L'aggro

Une récupération d'un très bon topic sur le sujet.

Ceux qui sont fans de chiffres et de mécanismes comme moi devraient y trouver matière pour une bonne lecture et une activation des méninges.

Pour les autres la lecture du topic sans se préoccuper des chiffres devrait néanmoins être très intéressante et instructive.

On y trouvera par exemple la confirmation des heals 2 fois moins générateurs d'aggro chez le palouf, du chiffre de la haine supplémentaire générée par un wawa en posture def, de la haine réduite produite par un vovo ou druide chaton, que vengeance est une fabuleuse technique d'aggro, etc ...

Pour ceux encore moins intéressé par tous ces mécanismes, la lecture ne se révélera pas inutile pour autant.
Le fonctionnement du taunt, de la reprise d'aggro ou encore l'explication de pourquoi le mob se tourne plus souvent vers le pulleur !

Vraiment un article dont je conseille la lecture à tous !

Bonne lecture, mais avant tout, bon jeu !

Formulas:Aggro

Managing aggro is one of the most important aspects of grouping because it determines how much damage the group receives and where the damage ends up.

For a long time it was thought that we as players would never be able get a sound understanding of how aggro works because it was assumed that it is based on complicated AI algorithms which can't reasonably be deduced from the little information Blizzard has made available to us. Thanks to the work of some dedicated individuals, however, we now know that this is not the case.

Today we have a quite thorough theory on aggro which explains most of the factors involved in a mob's target selection. These ideas and findings are outlined in this article.

Theory

Threat

Several abilities and effects increase a character's threat level against a mob. Note that the effective amount of threat generated can be modified by talents and spells. See the Threat modifiers subsection for details.



Note that threat gained by generating energy, mana or rage, and by healing (that shows up in the combat log) is split between all mobs involved in the combat.
Example: Player 1 is involved in combat with 5 mobs. Player 2 (priest) casts a 1000 heal without threat reduction talents on player 1. A 1000 heal generates 500 threat, however those 500 threat is split amongst the 5 mobs for 100 threat on each mob. Same goes for certain abilities, including Demo Shout, Demo Roar and Buffing effects.

Threat modifiers per Class

The actual threat generated by the effects above can be modified by the following abilities, talents and spells:





1- The figures for these maneuvers do not include Threat generated by their damage.
2- Priest - Fade is a temporary buff. When it expires, its threat level reduction is revoked once a threat generating action is performed.
3- Rogue threat reduction was changed from 20% to 29% in patch 1.12. (The reason for this is that threat reduction modifiers became multiplicative, rather than additive. A rogue's threat reduction when combined with Blessing of Salvation remained unchanged. However, other rogues would have experienced more threat reduction than before.) Druids in Cat Form were given the same bonus. Warriors in Battle and Berserker Stance are still only looking at a 20% threat reduction.

Threat Modifying Items

Stacked threat modifiers

All threat reduction effects stack in a multiplicative fashion, for example:

You are a warrior in Berserker Stance (-20% threat generated) and are effected by Blessing of Salvation (-30% threat generated)
Your total threat reduction would be: Berserker Stance (0.8 threat generated per point of damage)*Blessing of Salvation (0.7 threat generated per point of damage). 0.8*0.7=0.56 or 56% of threat generated - a total of 44% threat reduction.

Bonuses to threat generation applies in the same way as reductions since patch 1.12, with the exception of the innate "Defensive" threat of defensive stance and bear form and the talents for those stances, defiance and feral instinct, which add together for a 45% total bonus.

Prior to patch 1.12, threat reduction effects were additive. The change to a multiplicative method is the reason rogue innate threat reduction was changed from 20 to 29%. When blessed with Blessing of Salvation, the net effect to a rogue was the same pre- and post-patch. (Pre-patch: 20% + 30% = 50%. Post-patch: 70% * 71% = 49.7%)

Known bugs

Threat reduction abilities are also affected by threat reducing effects.

Example: Rogues have -29 % threat as an inate ability which is always active. Feint reduces threat by -800. However. the -29% affects feint, which causes it to remove only 568 threat, instead of the avertised ammount.

Additional notes

- Pulling (being the first who a mob attacks) does not generate any threat in itself, but other players need to beat your threat (even if 0) by 10% to get aggro from the mob.
- Overhealing doesn't generate any threat, only actual health restored does.
- Threat doesn't decay (passively degenerate over time) unless a specific encounter is designed that way.
- A character's threat level is reset if the character dies or moves far away from the mob [out of combat].
- A character's threat level cannot be negative.
- The hunter's Feign Death and the rogue's Vanish resets the player's threat level on all mobs which don't resist it.

Aggro

By aggro we understand the condition of a particular mob attacking a particular character. The basic behaviour of aggro is controlled by the rules outlined below. Obviously, some mobs will have secondary attacks which have different targeting procedures.

Pulling

The following conditions will cause a mob to attack a character if it isn't already attacking someone else:

- Using certain abilities on the mob (including attacking it), or
- Moving inside the aggro radius of the mob
Drawing Aggro

The following conditions will cause a mob to attack a character if it is already attacking someone else:

- Taunting the mob, or
- Exceeding the threat level of the mob's current target by 10% within melee range of the mob, or
- Exceeding the threat level of the mob's current target by 30% outside melee range of the mob, or
- The player with aggro leaves the leash range of the mob, leaves the instance, successfully uses an ability to leave combat (such as feign death), or dies, or
- If certain abilities impair the access of the mob to its higher threat-ranked targets (e.g. root spells), the mob will attack the highest threat-ranked target in its ability range (usually visible for melee mobs or silenced casters, which have a combat range of 5 yards)
- If certain abilities apply a debuff to a character that cause the mob to consider the player an invalid target. Usually these debuffs have a chance (or certainty) to break on damage, but there are some that don't but still cause the mob to consider the character an invalid target. Examples include Polymorph, Gouge, Fear, Conflagration, etc. These aggro reduction effects are temporary in most situations (exceptions exist). When the ability wears off, previous aggro levels are restored after a player performs any aggro-generating move.

Taunting

The following skills are taunting abilities:

- A Warrior's Taunt
- A Warrior's Mocking Blow
- A Warrior's Challenging Shout
- A Druid's Bear-Form Growl (same as Taunt)
- A Druid's Bear-Form Challenging Roar (same as Challenging Shout)
- A Paladin's Righteous Defense (in 2.0.1)
- A Shaman's Earth Elemental Totem

Note, the Growl of a Hunter's pet and Torment ability of a Warlock's Voidwalker are not actual taunting abilities; they merely cause a substantial amount of Threat.

When warrior Taunt or druid Growl is used, three things happen:

- A short-lived debuff is applied to the mob, which forces it to attack the warrior or druid.
- The Threat level of the character who used the taunting ability is immediately raised to be equal to the Threat level of whoever currently has aggro, if the taunting character's Threat is lower.
- The warrior or druid gains aggro.

(Note: This only applies to Taunt & Growl. Mocking Blow, Challenging Shout and Challenging Roar force mobs to attack you (#1), but do not match threat or transfer aggro. Mocking Blow generates a pre-defined amount of threat, Challenging Shout/Roar do not generate any threat at all!)

Further complications

Healing a tank who holds multiple mobs

When a tank hold multiple mobs, the threat of a heal on the tank will be split between all the mobs. The exact formula is not yet known, but it is more than the Threat/number of mobs. So if a tank holds 5 mobs and receives a heal, the threat on each mob will be less than Threat(heal)/5. Current speculation is Threat(heal)/(num of mobs *2)

The implication here is simple: in a 5-man party or 10-man raid, let the tank charge in. The tank then must throw Demoralizing Shout (to get some threat on all mobs) and then start sundering/revenging/whatever. Otherwise, with 0 threat on some mobs, the first heal will cause those mobs to attack the healer.

Implications

- Let the tank pull, or be the first to gain aggro after a Hunter has pulled and feigned death. This way, his taunts will always return aggro to him. In BC, Hunters have Misdirection, which can be used to pull one or more mobs on to the tank.
- Two or more tanks taunting targets from each other (and generating threat in various ways between the cooldowns) are great for generating immense amounts of hate very fast - since they always have each other as "top reference" in the hate list.
- Because characters standing out of melee range will not draw aggro until they exceed the threat level of the mob's current target by 30%, it's important that the tank keep the mobs well away from the casters. If a caster does draw aggro and you taunt it off him, make sure you also move it away.

New Data in The Burning Crusade Beta

This part is tested by players of EU.

Note, it is data on beta servers, so, the final number might be changed in released version.



The Threat values listed in the above table do not include the Threat caused by damage from the maneuver.

Bon je reviens ... je vais chercher mon dico anglais/francais....

En français ca donne koi ?

Ca donne :
- coup de bouclier, fracasser-armure, dévaster c'est du tout bon.
- frappe héroique aussi c'est pas mal

Ah ? J'aurais dit :
dégâts à distance et pas trop forts d'un coup, c'est bon pour ta vie
prise d'aggro à distance, bobo au tournant

kikoo en tant que wawa ca serait plutot:

fracasser , frappe heroique, revenge quand up, coup de bouclier

moi je n'ai pas heurt de bouclier, donc je prefere enchainer les fracass + frappe heroique qui ne sont pas sur les mêmes timer ( un depend du timer universel, l'autre du temps de recharge du coup )

c'est le genre de post, très intéressant, qui me font me sentir comment dire... blonde...? Chléaaaaaaaa file moi tes mècheeeeeees

/me pars rejoindre aelia

Oui ca doît être très interessant masi cometn dire, euh... ben voilà quoi ... oui c'est ca ! Dites c'est par ou la sortie ?

MDRR Aelia

et bien je suis heureuse de vous apprendre que j'ai trjs rien comprissssssssssssssss !!!!!!!!!!

c'est pas grave j'ai ma propre technique et mm que je meurs jamaisssssssssss

Disons que ce post sert au guerrier spe def à optimiser les tech qu'il utilise pour garder le plus longtemps possible l'agro face au malades du DPS
Mais bon ça marche pas à tout les coups non plus

Ok... je suis rassurée.... je suis blonde^^, enfin presque

Alors ....

Cleave Rank 6 (lvl 68 ), main taget 130 129.84-131.23 threat

ok ok.


Furious Howl +? per buffed party member

ok ok.


Demoralizing Shout Rank 7 (lvl 70) 56 55.24-56.11 threat (No difference for talents) ... of course my dear


Bon ben voilà, je crois que j'ai a peu peu pres tout assimilé.
Je sens comme une indigestion monté là, je reviens, je vais .....eurgh


Amicalement.

On pourrait éventuellement bosser sur une traduction ?
On me paie combien si je le fais ?

Hello

je déterre un peu ce sujet, j'en avais un autre que j'ai paumé et je suis tombé sur le votre en recherchant le mien... bref...

Juste pour les refractaires à ces considérations, et au dela des détails des chiffres et cie, il y a 2 lignes très importantes qui vous aideront à jouer !

Citation :

The following conditions will cause a mob to attack a character if it is already attacking someone else:
- Exceeding the threat level of the mob's current target by 10% within melee range of the mob, or
- Exceeding the threat level of the mob's current target by 30% outside melee range of the mob, or

Si on regarde ktm (ou omen ou autre addon d'indication des niveau de menace de chaque joueur), on a l'info du cumul de menace de chacun, à partir de tous les tableaux toussa toussa plus haut.
Mais comment faut-il lire ce ktm ? Et bien les 2 lignes que j'ai cité vous révelent dans un cas classique quand l'aggro changera. Si on résume, le MT a une aggro de 100 (par exemple). Un voleur choppera l'aggro s'il le dépasse de 10%, donc s'il arrive à 110. Dans le cas des ranged (mage, hunt, démo toussa toussa) le ranged ne prendra l'aggro que quand il arrivera à 130 ! (+30%).
Et donc, et c'est la que ca devient intéressant, on comprend alors pourquoi un wawa aura plus de mal à reprendre un mob parti sur un ranged que sur un cac. Dabord il doit courrir (mais si les gens savent jouer ils essayreont de l'amener au tank). Mais surtout le MT devra dépasser de 10% la menace du dps qui lui a volé. C'est à dire 110+10% = 121 pour un cac, et 130+10% = 143 pour un ranged!

Et oui, en plus de la course benny hillesque, le MT devra générer 2 fois plus de menace pour reprendre l'aggro à un ranged qu'à un cac!

C'est pour ca qu'on peut voir des pingpnog d'aggro entre 2 wawas ou 2 voleurs, mais que par contre un ranged qui a pris l'aggro se retrouve avec le mob scotché ^^.


Apres il y a bien sur toutes les techniques de reset (partiel) d'aggro (oubli, vanish, disparition, brise ame, fd) ... quand elle marchent ^^


Désormais (si ce n'était pas le cas) vous devriez pouvoir interpréter les barres de ktm pour savoir jusqu'ou votre menace ne doit pas monter ;-)

Bon jeu !
Gwi

Bonne idée de le remonter, on en discutait justement hier soir sous ts de ce topic
En plus ca m'a permis de voir qu'une des images n'était plus affichée et de l'uploader à nouveau.